Month: September 2007

Bluebonnet Association church plants reaching out to new Texas populations

SAN ANTONIO?The absence of a major metropolitan center makes the Bluebonnet Baptist Association an unlikely illustration of urbanization and its effects on the Texas mission field. But located along the I-35 corridor between Austin and San Antonio, its 70 churches reach into the suburbs that are edging out from their metropolitan neighbors.

In Texas, urbanization is introducing Baptists to a host of missiological challenges including overwhelming population growth and the arrival of new ethnic groups. And from his central Texas vantage point, Bluebonnet Director of Missions J.K. Minton sees urbanization as one of the most significant issues facing the modern American church.

“For the most part, existing churches do not recognize the reality of urbanization,” Minton said. “We are prone to view ourselves through pre-1960 eyes and think our church prospects are still primarily a white, middle-class, conservative, Ozzie and Harriet demography. Because we do not recognize the change in our culture and have limited our evangelistic vision and efforts, most of our existing churches [have] plateaued, struggling to maintain their numbers.”

As Southern Baptists find themselves unexpectedly tied to the social and theological implications of urbanization, Minton said many existing churches lack the resources to address the new population shifts.

“This reality has caused Bluebonnet Association to give significant priority to church planting targeting specific people groups,” he said, citing church plants as the most effective evangelism strategy for urbanization.

The Connection, Kyle
The town of Kyle is a clear example of how urbanization is bringing the city outward to smaller towns. A typical small town, Kyle registered 2,093 residents in 1980. Today, it has grown to 28,000 thanks to the migration of populations from San Antonio and Austin. In the next three years, its population is expected to double again (See city-data.com for more details.).

The unprecedented population growth is what attracted church planter Cole Phillips to Kyle.
“Austin is moving this direction, and Kyle has seen a 300 percent increase over the past five years in population,” he said. “There is nothing but rooftops.”

In September 2004, Phillips led 145 people in the plant’s first worship service. Last week, The Connection celebrated its third birthday and averages 450 on Sunday mornings. In the last three years, the plant has baptized 100 people.

Although there are more people in the area, Phillips said their church battles the lack of community.
“Even though we are around more and more people, we are still isolated and feel more alone,” he explained, using the term “crowded loneliness.”

“Everybody has their garages. They push their garage door-opener and drive into the garage, and they don’t have to interact with their neighbors,” he said. “You can really go through life without interacting and meeting your neighbors. So even though there is nothing but rooftops, we still find that people don’t know how to connect.”

Phillips’ sees The Connection as a conduit for neighborhood evangelism.

“At The Connection Church we want to provide opportunities and environments to develop real, authentic relationships that are really impacting their lives,” he said. “The local church is a great place to lead our people to be intentional about getting out into the neighborhoods and to meet their neighbors.”

The push for living an intentional life comes from the church’s small groups that meet weekly in church members’ homes rather than at the church.
“There is a great mission field out there, and the best way that we’ve found to reach people is through relationships,” Phillips said.

Yet Phillips acknowledged that it is often difficult to motivate believers to engage their neighbors, especially when they are from a different culture or speak a different language.

“The population is only going to continue to change, and you’ve got to keep up with what’s going on,” he said. “To keep our finger on the pulse of the demographic, we try to make sure we include people in leadership who reflect those changes.”

Reflecting the diversity of its community, The Connection is 40 percent Hispanic, with a mix of Caucasian, African-American, and Asian faces. Because of the different ethnic groups that comprise the congregation, Phillips said he focuses on the universal needs of people.

“We teach on the kinds of teaching Jesus did?when he talked about marriage and money and things that everybody struggles with,” he said. “When you focus on basic needs that are relevant to any culture, when you have a place where you are loved and cared about, people are drawn to that. People want to be a part of a place that is making a difference in lives.”

For existing churches that are watching the face of their neighborhoods change, Phillips gave a few suggestions.

“Visit some other churches that are setting the standard and effectively reaching out [to a different] culture,” he said. “Don’t hide in your office. Get out where the people are and be relational. The pastor sets the personality, pulse, and passion of the church.”

To aid other churches in engaging their communities, Phillips began a church planting website called Launching Churches. The website, launchingchurches.com, acts as a coaching network for pastors with ideas for ministry, marketing helps, and other downloadable resources.

Texas population shifting to major urban centers

SAN ANTONIO?Like it or not, Texas, you have an urban future.

Fueled by steady immigration and a rural population drain, Texas’ major city centers have seen explosive growth in the past decade. Urbanization is rapidly transforming Texas’ rural landscape into a state of globally interconnected cities filled with people of diverse culture and languages. As the majority of the state shifts to cities, Southern Baptists will be faced with unique challenges for missions, church structure, and even theology in the next decade.

As a worldwide phenomenon, urbanization is not isolated to the Lone Star state.

The 2005 UN World Urbanization Prospects Report said the 20th century is witnessing the rapid urbanization of the world. The world’s urban populations grew from 13 percent (220 million) in 1900, to 29 percent (732 million) in 1950, to 49 percent (3.2 billion) in 2005. By 2030, the UN predicts 60 percent of the earth’s population (4.9 billion) will live in major cities.

Mirroring global population trends, Texas gained 4 million people to 21.7 million residents between 1992-2002, according to a recent article in the San Antonio Business Journal. In 2002, it was estimated that about two-thirds of all Texans lived in the state’s six largest metro areas (Austin, Dallas-Fort Worth, El Paso, Houston, and San Antonio). As the U.S. Census Bureau estimates Texas’ current population at 24 million and growing, the urbanization of Texas’ major city centers is likely to continue in the next decade.

Responding to urbanization must become a priority for Southern Baptist churches, says Fred Hewett of the North American Mission Board’s church planting division.

“You cannot adequately address the need for reaching and planting churches among the urban populations,” he said, calling on all Baptists to consider the needs of their city. “[We] must recognize that most of the lost live in the heart of our cities.”

Yet statistics indicate Texas churches are not keeping up with the state’s population growth. NAMB’s Center for Missional Research (CMI) and the American Church Project reported that urbanization has only widened the gulf between Baptist churches and Texas residents. The report, conducted between 1990-2000, showed only 19 percent of all Texans attended Sunday worship services.

In the Dallas-Fort-Worth area, only 18.9 percent of the area’s total population attended church. Despite 384 new church plants in the metro area, the report estimated 711 more churches were needed to keep up with population growth.

In Austin, population growth outpaced growth among all major denominations. Only 8 percent of Austin residents attended worship services, leaving 83 percent of the population without a church home. Overall, Austin saw a 14 percent decline in attendance at evangelical churches. Although 77 new churches were planted, the area needed 415 new churches to balance out the city’s new growth.

In Houston, the Roman Catholic church grew rapidly over the last decade, in part from Hispanic migration, which grew from 21 to 30 percent of the total population. Montgomery and Fort Bend counties saw the most growth in Catholic attendance with 105.4 percent and 60.2 percent, respectively.
Despite the planting of 239 evangelical churches, 817 churches were still needed to equalize the population to church ratio.

In San Antonio, however, attendance at evangelical worship services increased in four counties: Bexar, Comal, Guadalupe, and Wilson. Although 40 percent of the city attended a Catholic church and 17 percent attended a Baptist church, the report indicated a 12 percent increase in attendance at evangelical worship services. Yet San Antonio still needed 211 churches to keep up with population growth.

Urbanization is touching every region in Texas. Along with major metropolitan areas, rural residents are also feeling the impact of this societal phenomenon. In a separate report titled “Twelve Important Changes in the American Church,” the CMI noted churches are declining faster in rural and small towns than in suburban and urban areas.

Robby Partain, director of missions for the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention, said mission strategies should consider the exit of a younger demographic from rural Texas.

“The cities are where the young people are, because that’s where the economic opportunity is,” Partain said. “The farther down (younger) you go into the generational strata, the less people attend church or even have a favorable view of organized religion.”

Partain said a good North American missions strategy will seek to influence the lost among young populations in metropolitan areas.

“If you’re a church in an urban context, urban missions should be on your front burner,” he said.
“The worst methodology is usually ‘build it and they will come’ because lost people are not looking for a cool church to attend,” Partain said. “You have to rediscover your missionary calling as a church and then go to the lost in your community. Figure out how to connect with them, bless them and share Jesus with them.”

But for churches looking to create a strategy to respond to urbanization, there are some unique challenges to consider.

Missiological Challenge
In his book “Theology as Big as the City,” pastor and urbanization guru Ray Bakke identifies some of the major challenges of an urban reality. First, Bakke believes the urban challenge is missological as the frontier of international missions has shifted to inside the borders of the United States.

“From now on nearly all ministry will be cross-cultural amid the urban pluralism caused by the greatest migration in human history from Southern hemispheres to the North, from East to West and, above all, from rural to urban,” said Bakke, who has pastored and served in inner-city churches for nearly 30 years.

In Texas, urbanization is introducing a host of new cultures and languages. Between 2000-2004, 34 percent of the state’s new population growth stemmed from immigrants. Census statistics indicate 31.2 percent of Texas currently speaks another language other than (or in addition to) English at home. And currently, the U.S. English Foundation estimates there are more than 145 languages spoken in Texas.

“The majority of the world’s non-Christians will not be geographically distant peoples,” Bakke said. Rather, they will be “culturally distant peoples who often reside together within the shadows of urban spires in the metro areas of [almost] every continent.”

Ecclesiastical Challenge
Second, urbanization presents an ecclesiastical challenge as churches consider what ministries to offer urban populations.

“The needs of the urban population are greater than ever,” said Bakke, citing the crack-cocaine epidemic, violence, homelessness, and HIV-AIDS.

And while churches may keep the same foundational functions (worship, evangelism, discipleship, fellowship, and service,) Bakke believes the church must learn to appropriately contextualize the gospel message to an urban audience.

“Most Christians still read the Bible through rural lenses. Furthermore, the evangelical church seems to be retreating even further from seeing our God as one who engages external-world reality to seeing one who meets our personal needs and solves our personal problems,” he said, noting the tension between evangelism and social aid.

“Yet the Bible clearly describes a God who is completely interested and involved in both the structures and the individuals that compose society,” said Bakke, arguing that the most effective urban strategies balance for both spiritually transforming people and socially transforming places.


Theological Challenge

New website gives platform to share faith story with strangers, friends

You’re walking out of a Starbuck’s one day and you strike up a conversation with a fellow customer. As it happens, the conversation turns spiritual; maybe the lady who orders the Quad Grande Americano every morning just lost her aunt.

Suddenly, God grants you an opportunity to share your conversion experience. But alas, the barista calls out her drink, she grabs it, and heads for her eight o’clock. You manage to get in a short, “I’ll pray for you,” before she goes.

“Only if I had more time,” runs through your mind.

The Southern Baptists of Texas Convention has launched a new website to help Christians share their stories with the world, Freegiftforlife.com. This website offers non-Christians an opportunity to read the testimonies of many believers’ journeys to salvation.

“A lost person finds a testimony a more personal reason to become a Christian,” said Jack Harris, SBTC senior associate for personal and event evangelism. “It is not just us giving them the facts of salvation.”

Freegiftforlife.com was inspired by a website that the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma created several years ago.

“We were talking about how we could expand the number of people whom we influence,” Harris said, “and someone mentioned that the Oklahoma state convention had done a website. We liked the idea of a global audience” that a website could reach.

“These days everyone is Internet savvy. This website is not just an opportunity for someone surfing the Internet.” Harris said. “It is a tool that Christians can use in order to share the gospel easier.”

Freegiftforlife.com opens at a general page that presents a video of several people’s personal stories. The video explains how one can become a Christian. But this site offers more than this one story; it gives Christians an opportunity to create their own personal story page.

Any Christian can log in and create his own page, telling his own personal story. Freegiftforlife.com provides cards to be downloaded and printed off with the personal testimony link. These cards can be handed out to people and they can access one’s personal story. Freegiftforlife.com also offers web banners that anyone can download onto a website. These banners offer Christians a way to share their faith on their websites.

When that woman at Starbucks grabs her coffee and is headed on her way out the door, instead of feeling rushed and losing an opportunity to share, just hand her a card, Harris said. She will be able to look up a testimony and see how God can work his power in a person’s life.

Two years after Hurricane Rita, Texans still living amid damaged homes

VIDOR?Some folks in the thick piney woods of deep Southeast Texas remember a week or two worth of national media attention and a few weeks more of no electricity.

The big media left early. The national relief agencies eventually left, too.

But it might surprise those outside the path of Hurricane Rita that two years after it hit, many of its
victims are still struggling.

When Rita reached the Texas Gulf Coast on Sept. 29, 2005?one month after Katrina hit Mississippi and Louisiana?it swept across the pines, snapping them like matchsticks in places and occasionally uprooting them despite roots sometimes 12 feet deep.

“The sad thing is, there are a number of homes where families are still living with the damage that was done by Rita,” said Gordon Knight, the SBTC’s state coordinator for Southeast Texas Recovery.
“They are falling through the cracks,” Knight said, because the elderly, poor families and single parents often lack adequate insurance coverage as well as a discernable political voice.

That explains the blue tarp that is so visible driving through towns such as Vidor, population 12,000, just east of Beaumont, or Port Arthur, on the coast. Instead of receiving insurance money to fix their homes, many resident make do with scrap lumber and the plastic tarp while giving up hope that someone will help them or waiting for the government or a social service agency to come through.

Knight said he had spoken with a family of six people earlier that week living in two rooms of their home.

Knight started his duties with the SBTC Aug. 1, leaving behind a pastorate at First Baptist Church of Pinewood to rally church groups to come to the Gulf Coast and inland counties to the north to make homes livable for people still suffering from the storm’s damage.

Knight is teamed with Nehemiah’s Vision, a non-profit ministry begun by First Baptist Church of Vidor and some local Christian businessmen in the aftermath of Katrina but which was quickly employed for Rita.

Knight and his wife, Joan, always ones to travel light during their years of ministry, are living in an RV parked near the First Baptist Church gymnasium while he works out of the Nehemiah’s Vision office near the church.

“My wife and I have never had a problem picking up and going when the Lord says go,” said Knight, an East Texas native who understands the culture of the region.

Most of the work Nehemiah’s Vision has done has been in four counties: Jefferson, Hardin, Orange, Jasper and Newton, explained Andy Narramore, executive director of Nehemiah’s Vision.

Nehemiah’s Vision was just organizing when Rita hit, and the ministry has been swamped with work ever since. As of Aug. 29, they had coordinated 404 home rebuilds with volunteer laborers and had 844 homeowners on a waiting list.

The last week in August, a 21-person team from First Baptist Church of Forney had traveled to Vidor to rebuild a home owned by 72-year-old Joyce Burge that was nearly unsalvageable after a large tree split the roof.

In three days working in intermittent rain, the team had the walls framed and was preparing to hang rafters on the 900-square-foot home with the end game for the week to have the roof on. All that was left of the old home was the kitchen.

By the end of October, Knight said Nehemiah’s Vision hopes to have Burge’s house completed. Told that news during a break from her job at Wal-Mart, Burge smiled widely.

“It was terrible,” Burge said of living in two rooms of the home for nearly two years while battling chronic respiratory illness. “Rain coming in through my roof, sheetrock falling down. It’s been horrible.”

Knight said Burge didn’t think Nehemiah’s Vision would assist her when a co-worker suggested she contact them about help.

“I was depressed,” she said. “I was at the point of giving up.”

Knight said he noticed Burge’s countenance change the day she visited the work site and the volunteers from First Baptist Church of Forney were transforming her home. “They are fantastic people,” Burge remarked.

Leticia Corral, a member of First Baptist Church of Sunnyvale and a 23-year Dallas Police Department veteran, was one of three women among the Forney team. She told the TEXAN between cutting sheets of plywood that she took vacation time to make the trip, her 11th with an FBC Forney construction crew.

“The Lord calls us to go out and make disciples of all nations,” Corral said. “Of course, it’s a honor to be his hands and feet and I feel it’s a privilege that he would use me in a small way.”

Sam Bushnell, a retired chemical engineer from Forney, said, “It’s good to see men helping people. I think it’s wonderful. I really retired so I would have time to do this. Since last January, I have worked on four churches and one other home.”

It is volunteers like Bushnell and church groups from Southern Baptist churches like FBC Forney that Knight hopes to rally to help in Southeast Texas, he said.

“We’re the forgotten hurricane,” Knight said, repeating a phrase heard several times among those living in the Vidor area. “It’s all over the radio today that this is the anniversary of Katrina. But nobody remembers Rita.”

Knight said he figures the work will take at least another two years if enough church groups tackle the more than 800 projects on the waiting list.

Also, the federal government has announced it will soon release $210 million for aid in rebuilding?the first such federal disbursement. Soon after the storm the federal government provided $26 million for humanitarian needs?but nothing to assist in rebuilding homes and other structures, Narramore said.

Over two years, Nehemiah’s Vision has helped guide volunteers to lend more than 50,000 volunteer labor hours?valued by the government at $18.25 an hour?and more than $2.5 million in materials, Narramore said.

“If you add it all up,” said Gordon Hightower, Nehemiah’s Vision director of field operations, “we did more than the federal government can do in two years. And we’re doing it out of the depths of our love for Christ and not for any other reason. The people receiving it are grateful, and they’re receptive to the gospel.”

People expect the government to help; they don’t expect average citizens to sacrifice their time and money, which changes their attitudes, Hightower noted.

Terry Wright, pastor of FBC Vidor and one of the principal founders of Nehemiah’s Vision, said God’s faithfulness has been evident amid the continued suffering of some area residents.

“The homes that have been refurbished thus far, it’s been all God and God’s people being obedient,” Wright said.

“We are out-of-sight, out-of-mind kinds of people. I’ve lived in this country all of my life, and I’ve forgotten most every hurricane that has come through. I won’t ever do that again,” he said.

Wright said the businessmen who sit on the Nehemiah’s Vision board “have a passion for what we’re doing and to see this thing out and beyond.”

Speaking of an unchurched brother and sister, barely out of their teens, whose house was damaged by Rita and then repaired by Baptist volunteers, Knight said: “They are going to remember that for a lifetime. And they’re going to remember that it was Christian people who did it.”

“The blessing is greater to the giver than to the one receiving it,” Knight remarked.
For information on how to volunteer in Southeast Texas Recovery, contact Knight at gknight87@hotmail.com or call the Nehemiah’s Vision office at 409-769-1616.

I.D. rift hits Baylor again

WACO, Texas (BP)–Baylor University officials ordered the shutdown of a personal website of one of a handful of the school’s distinguished professors because of anonymous concerns that the site, hosted on the university’s server, supported Intelligent Design.

Robert Marks, distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering at Baylor, launched a website called the Evolutionary Informatics Lab in June to examine whether Darwinian processes like random mutation and natural selection can generate new information.

Marks’ conclusions, as explained on the website, placed limits on the scope of Darwinism and offered scientific support for Intelligent Design.

In July, a podcast interview with Marks appeared on a website run by the pro-ID Discovery Institute, and a week later Benjamin Kelley, dean of engineering at Baylor, told Marks to remove the Evolutionary Informatics website immediately.

“This is a big story, perhaps the biggest story yet of academic suppression relating to ID,” William Dembski, a research professor in philosophy at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, told Baptist Press.

“Robert Marks is a world-class expert in the field of evolutionary computing, and yet the Baylor administration, without any consideration of the actual content of Marks’ work at the Evolutionary Informatics Lab, decided to shut it down simply because there were anonymous complaints linking the lab to Intelligent Design,” Dembski said.

Dembski himself was at the center of a controversy involving Baylor and Intelligent Design in 2000 when he was removed from his post as director of the school’s Michael Polanyi Center for Complexity, Information, and Design after refusing to rescind a statement supporting Intelligent Design as a legitimate form of academic inquiry.

Lori Fogleman, director of media communications at Baylor, told Baptist Press Sept. 5 that the school’s objection to the website involves standards by which something can or cannot attach its name to Baylor.

“This isn’t about the content of the website. Really the issue is related to Baylor’s policies and procedures of approving centers, institutes, products using the university’s name,” Fogleman said. “Baylor reserves the exclusive right to the use of its own name, and we’re pretty jealous in the protection of that name. So it has nothing to do with the content but is all about how one goes about establishing a center, an institute, a product using the university’s name.”

In response to the dean’s order to remove the Evolutionary Informatics website, Marks requested a meeting with Baylor legal counsel to resolve the matter. Six days before the scheduled Aug. 9 meeting, Kelley entered Marks’ Baylor webspace and, without his consent, removed all references to the Evolutionary Informatics Lab, according to a timeline Dembski sent to BP.

The Aug. 9 meeting involved John Gilmore, an attorney who advised Dembski in 2000 and now represents Marks, Baylor Provost Randall O’Brien, Kelley and Baylor attorneys including Charles Beckenhauer, chief counsel for the school. Baylor officials asked that Marks add a disclaimer to his website and remove anything that could imply the lab is a Baylor initiative.

“Randall O’Brien signs off on the EIL site going back up and closes the meeting with prayer,” Dembski’s timeline states.

An Aug. 21 e-mail from Beckenhauer to Gilmore included what the Baylor chief counsel called his “proposed fixes” to the website, which by then existed only as a mirror site, not viewable by the general public. Gilmore responded by saying the matter had been settled at the Aug. 9 meeting with the provost and that Beckenhauer’s recommendations were out of line.

On Aug. 30, Beckenhauer told Gilmore via e-mail that “there is now a long trail of information that inappropriately links independent research to the Baylor name,” and he said the website issue centered on “misleading representations of your client and his collaborator (Dr. Dembski).”

Research papers that Dembski and Marks wrote jointly were on the website, and Dembski said his connection with the lab had been evident from the start.

Beckenhauer said the Aug. 9 meeting was not meant to be a final agreement, and he expressed concerns that Marks and Dembski had created a “trail of inaccuracies” that would lead people to believe Baylor had given direct support for what in reality was an independent project.

“All the circumstantial evidence points to John Lilley, Baylor’s president, as being behind this effort to stamp out ID at Baylor,” Dembski told Baptist Press. “The provost was at the crucial Aug. 9 meeting; the president wasn’t. Lilley is the only one with the authority to overturn what the provost agreed to at that meeting.”

Dembski, in comments to the Southern Baptist Texan newsjournal Sept. 4, underscored the hypersensitivity surrounding Intelligent Design in scholastic institutions these days.

“You have to understand, in the current academic climate, Intelligent Design is like leprosy or heresy in times past,” he said. “To be tagged as an ID supporter is to become an academic pariah, and this holds even at so-called Christian institutions that place a premium on respectability at the expense of truth and the offense of the Gospel.”

Dembski said he knows of several faculty members at Baylor who support Intelligent Design, but they are mostly younger faculty who don’t have tenure and don’t speak up on the topic. An old guard at Baylor, he said, supports secularization.

“John Lilley, in attempting to pacify that old guard, and perhaps because of a sense of foreboding about how Baylor might be perceived in the wider university culture if it were seen as supporting Intelligent Design or as even allowing it merely a presence, has therefore decided to come down hard against it,” Dembski said.

Intelligent Design “in a sense became a poster child” of what immediate past president Robert Sloan tried to accomplish at Baylor, seeking to rescue the Baptist General Convention of Texas-affiliated school from its slide into secularization before he resigned under pressure in 2005, Dembski noted.

Aside from the hot-button issue of Intelligent Design, Dembski said the way the Baylor administration has dealt with Marks in this case is “inexcusable by any standard, certainly Christian but even secular.”

“I’ve been at MIT, Princeton University, Notre Dame, Cornell, Northwestern and the University of Chicago, and at none of these schools have I ever have witnessed the shameful treatment that Baylor has accorded to Robert Marks,” Dembski said.

“… [Marks] was a star in his department at the University of Washington in Seattle for 26 years before Baylor recruited him, and now Baylor is subjecting him to treatment that even so ‘liberal’ and ‘secular’ a place as UW would find unconscionable,” Dembski added. “Yes, there are academic freedom issues here, but at this point the issue is one of plain decency.”

Robert Crowther of the Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture told Baptist Press the institute is watching the Marks situation from an academic freedom standpoint.

“We’re deeply concerned that the administration at Baylor University has really not shown any support for academic freedom or freedom of scientific inquiry in shutting down a website and a research project of one of their distinguished faculty,” Crowther said. “We find that very troubling. It does show a certain trend at Baylor.”

Crowther said he believes Intelligent Design has become such a controversial issue in academia because of the scientific threat it poses. The Scopes Trial should have settled the issue, he said, but discoveries since then have altered the discussion.

“What has changed is the science. We know things now and there are new discoveries being made all the time that are leading a number of scientists to not just question Darwinian evolution but to actively pursue research into Intelligent Design,” Crowther said. “The thing that is driving this really is the science. We wouldn’t be having the debate if there wasn’t something going on in science that was causing a lot of questions to rise from most of the scientists.”